Post by RickBefore I decided to respond to your message, I read each quote given, and
the whole of the chapters of scripture mentioned. I have studied these
scriptures using the 1611 translation of the King James Version and cross
referenced them with the New Intenational (english language) Version.
In otherwords people will marry, while on earth but as there is no need for
marriage in heaven, no one will marry in heaven. Jesus spoke these words to
the Saduesses, who were asking if He approved of the custom of a widow
marrying her brother in law so that she could have a child, if she and her
late husband never had the chance to concieve. The eldest son (maybe all
children from this type of union) would be viewed by the public as being
raised by his/their mother and uncle. This passage actually begins at verse
27
Well obviously, you really didn't read and consider each quote given. Let's
look at it again.
Post by RickLuke 20:34-36
34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world
marry,
Post by Rick35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and
are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
KJV
Now, how can they which are accounted worthy to OBTAIN that world, be those
in heaven, since those in heaven have ALREADY obtained that world, so
obviously, those worthy to OBTAIN, have NOT reached heaven yet and are still
on the earth. But it says those who are the children of God, are equal to
the angels in heaven, do NOT marry, and are children of the resurrection,
which means that they have been resurrected back on the earth. To enter
heaven, you are NOT resurrected, but redeemed. Resurrection is returning to
the earth.
In the FIRST resurrection, where ALL mankind returns to the earth in human
form, to be JUDGED, is what this scripture is referring to. NO ONE is
redeemed, saved, and given the crown of life, until they are JUDGED at the
second coming and have endured until the end. In these end times, marriage
and procreation is NOT necessary for those who desire to be redeemed, for
they have denied themselves, picked up the cross and FOLLOWED Christ,
meaning do as He did, believe as he believed, obeyed all that He said, and
walk as He walked, which HE did NOT marry, but was as the angels of heaven,
and in the return being the FIRSTFRUITS of the children of God.
1 Cor 15:23-24
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they
that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God,
even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and
power.
KJV
Rev 14:4-5
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins.
These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were
redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before
the throne of God.
KJV
you wrote.
Post by RickThis sermon begins at verse 4 Jesus was asked about the spiritual
legitimacy of divorce. His reply was that the only time a man may divorce
his wife is if she was proven to have commited adultery. He (Jesus) also
said that if a divorced man remarries during the lifetime of his ex-wife, he
then commits adultery. Jesus then goes on to say; some people were born
sterile (or do not have the neccessary biology to have sex) others had been
mutilated (castrated) by human hands and others who have made the decision
not to have sex or marry, as that makes it easier for those people to serve
God in a meaningful way. Jesus' closing remark is "THIS MESSAGE IS FOR
PEOPLE WHO ARE(WISH TO BE) SEXUALLY ACTIVE." The message was never intended
for people who are not able to, or do not have the desire to be sexually
active.
Jesus may have begun by talking about divorce, but ended with the statement
that it is better NOT to marry, and to be eunuchs FOR THE KINGDOM OF
HEAVEN'S SAKE. And his closing remarks were NOT for those who WISH to be
sexually active, but for those who find the narrow road, and make themselves
eunuchs FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN'S SAKE. Thus, if you want to receive the
kingdom of heaven, you will be chaste. Anyone who wants to be sexually
active, do NOT follow and walk as Christ walked, but are earthly, sinful,
lustful and therefore NOT redeemed. The whole purpose for man who want to be
redeemed is to PLEASE GOD, DENY himself, and walk in the will of the Father.
Anyone who wants to have sex and marriage is EARTHLY, and NOT walking in
spirit and truth in the kingdom of God, to be redeemed.
you wrote./
Post by RickThis is the prophecy of the 144,000,000. The selected people (the
144000000), were chosen, to provide a special message because they resisted
the temptation (or possibly never had the chance) to live immoral lives.
Dore, I hate to be the bearer of 'devestating' news, you by you own
admission within this newsgroup are not a virgin so you won't be one of
them. I on the otherhand will be if Jesus was to return before I gave away
my virginity. Even if you were a virgin you have to be male to be part of
the 144,000,000.
The 144,000 are those who are JUDGED and found worthy initially in the
judgment of the return. THEY ARE THE REDEEMED FROM THE EARTH, BEING THE
FIRSTFRUITS TO THE LAMB AND TO GOD.
And my past has all been forgiven and forgotten, for I have repented and I
am cleansed and all of my past was thrown into the sea of forgetfulness, so
I am virginal, pure, and holy. And physical gender does NOT play a part, for
in ancient times, especially after the cross, ALL truths were given in the
male gender, but were meant for all mankind, for the Holy Spirit of truth,
would have revealed that to you, had you been obedient, righteous,
repentant, pure, perfect and holy to receive Him.
you wrote.
Post by RickThe message given commences at verse 25 'Now concerning virgins, I have no
connandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment as one that hath obtained
the mercy of God'
. Verse 27 'Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed, art thou
loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.' v28 'But and if thou marry, THOU
HAST NOT SINNED, and if a virgin marry, SHE HATH NOT SINNED. Never the less
thou shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.
The passage ends at verse 39 stating that divorce and remarriage during the
lifetime of an ex-spouse is still not permitted or advised. Note the phrase
"I have no connandment of the Lord", the passage is not Gods instruction,
it's the opinion of Paul.
So Paul is greater than Christ and all mankind should IGNORE Christ and
embrace the opinions of Paul?
Luke 14:26-27
26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and
children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot
be my disciple.
27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my
disciple.
KJV
Matt 19:29
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or
father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall
receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
KJV
So then I guess you will have to wait for Paul to come down and redeem you,
for you honor his words more than Christ.
it was written.
Post by Rick29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or
father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake,
shall
receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
KJV
Neither condems sexual activity or comands celibacy. Jesus had just
explained that those who choose of their own free will to deny themselves
the blessings a family could bring them will recieve blessings of a
family 100 times greater, when they get to heaven. Nowhere in the text does
it say that there
is not a blessing in procreating or earning an income. This is a
contiunation of the previously discussed passage Matt 19:10-13. Please read
the verses 13-26 when reading these two quotes.
Oh and forsaking your wife constitutes continuing in sexual relations with
your wife? Christ says that you will ALSO inherit eternal life, He does NOT
say that you will receive the blessings in heaven, but says in this world
AND the world to come, meaning that the close intimacy of family will be
received, with the companionship of angels and God, and has absolutely
NOTHING to do with carnal earthly marriage and sex.
SEX is evil and earthly. Money is EVIL and earthly. And had you actually
taken Christ seriously, denied yourself and FOLLOWED HIM, doing as He did,
living as He lived, you would NOT be procreating nor seeking the servitude
of money, but HATING IT.All you are doing is making excuses for DENYING
Christ and DOING as YOU please and indulging in your lusts and wants,
pretending that your sins and evil will be acceptable because you want it to
be. You don't LOVE God and have NO desire to be pure, holy, sinless and
perfect as the Father is, you just want to get away with your evil and
carnal choices and pretend it is good enough for God to get you a spot in
heaven. You couldn't care less about God, only yourself, so you can indulge
in the lusts of the flesh that you have chosen. NO WHERE does Christ say
that a family, wife, children, sex or money is a blessing.
it was written.
Post by Rick33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he
hath,
he cannot be my disciple.
KJV
Where in this verse is there any mention of sexual activity??????
Forsake ALL he has, meaning wives, children, sex, family, possessions,
family and all things of the earth. You want to pick and choose what
forsaking ALL he has means, and pretend that it only means the things you
are willing to forsake, instead of ALL earthly things, which sex is an
earthly thing.
it was written.
Post by RickLuke 14:26-27
26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and WIFE,
and
children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot
be my disciple.
27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my
disciple.
KJV
Again, where in this quote is the reference to abstinence, these two verses
specifically mention parents and spouses
Think about it, is HATING your wife, having sex with her? Fact is, you just
want to make excuses to keep having sex, for it means more to you than God
and even eternal life. All you want is to do anything that you like and
want, and if it means to stop being carnal, earthly and indulging in sex, or
anything that you want to, then you have to find some excuses and ignore the
true meanings of the commands of Christ, and offer nothing but twisting,
distortions and neglect of scripture so you can indulge in sex and anything
you want and still pretend to be redeemed. YOU are to be LIKE CHRIST, FOLLOW
HIM, be perfect and HOLY as the Father is, and GOD, nor Christ have sex,
there is NO sex in heaven, angels do NOT have sex, nor marry, but you want
to do all of these things and pretend that you don't have to give them up on
the earth and that it is ONLY required when you reach heaven. Rubbish, if
you want heaven, then you will act as the angels in heaven, to be considered
WORTHY of that crown of redemption BEFORE you get there, in JUDGMENT.
1 Peter 4:17-18
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if
it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel
of God?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the
sinner appear?
KJV
Matt 7:13-14
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the
way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto
life, and few there be that find it.
KJV
Matt 5:48-6:1
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is
perfect.
KJV
1 Peter 1:16
Be ye holy; for I am holy.
KJV
SEX is NOT HOLY!
--
Dore
http://dorewilliamson.com
Post by RickBefore I decided to respond to your message, I read each quote given, and
the whole of the chapters of scripture mentioned. I have studied these
scriptures using the 1611 translation of the King James Version and cross
referenced them with the New Intenational (english language) Version.
In context
Luke 20:34-36
34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry,
and
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and
are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
KJV
In otherwords people will marry, while on earth but as there is no need for
marriage in heaven, no one will marry in heaven. Jesus spoke these words to
the Saduesses, who were asking if He approved of the custom of a widow
marrying her brother in law so that she could have a child, if she and her
late husband never had the chance to concieve. The eldest son (maybe all
children from this type of union) would be viewed by the public as being
raised by his/their mother and uncle. This passage actually begins at verse
27
Matt 19:10-13
10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife,
it is not good to marry.
11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to
whom it is given.
12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's
and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be
eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's
sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.
KJV
This sermon begins at verse 4 Jesus was asked about the spiritual
legitimacy of divorce. His reply was that the only time a man may divorce
his wife is if she was proven to have commited adultery. He (Jesus) also
said that if a divorced man remarries during the lifetime of his ex-wife, he
then commits adultery. Jesus then goes on to say; some people were born
sterile (or do not have the neccessary biology to have sex) others had been
mutilated (castrated) by human hands and others who have made the decision
not to have sex or marry, as that makes it easier for those people to serve
God in a meaningful way. Jesus' closing remark is "THIS MESSAGE IS FOR
PEOPLE WHO ARE(WISH TO BE) SEXUALLY ACTIVE." The message was never intended
for people who are not able to, or do not have the desire to be sexually
active.
Rev 14:4-5
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins.
These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were
redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before
the throne of God
KJV
Note: REDEEMED
This is the prophecy of the 144,000,000. The selected people (the
144000000), were chosen, to provide a special message because they resisted
the temptation (or possibly never had the chance) to live immoral lives.
Dore, I hate to be the bearer of 'devestating' news, you by you own
admission within this newsgroup are not a virgin so you won't be one of
them. I on the otherhand will be if Jesus was to return before I gave away
my virginity. Even if you were a virgin you have to be male to be part of
the 144,000,000.
1 Cor 7:32-34
32 But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth
for
33 But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how
he may please his wife.
34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried
woman
careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and
in
spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how
she
may please her husband.
KJV
The message given commences at verse 25 'Now concerning virgins, I have no
connandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment as one that hath obtained
the mercy of God'
. Verse 27 'Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed, art thou
loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.' v28 'But and if thou marry, THOU
HAST NOT SINNED, and if a virgin marry, SHE HATH NOT SINNED. Never the less
thou shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.
The passage ends at verse 39 stating that divorce and remarriage during the
lifetime of an ex-spouse is still not permitted or advised. Note the phrase
"I have no connandment of the Lord", the passage is not Gods instruction,
it's the opinion of Paul.
Matt 19:27-29
27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all,
and
followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have
followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the
throne
of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve
tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or
father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake,
shall
receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
KJV
Neither condems sexual activity or comands celibacy. Jesus had just
explained that those who choose of their own free will to deny themselves
the blessings a family could bring them will recieve blessings of a
family 100 times greater, when they get to heaven. Nowhere in the text does
it say that there
is not a blessing in procreating or earning an income. This is a
contiunation of the previously discussed passage Matt 19:10-13. Please read
the verses 13-26 when reading these two quotes.
Luke 14:33
33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he
hath,
he cannot be my disciple.
KJV
Where in this verse is there any mention of sexual activity??????
Luke 14:26-27
26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife,
and
children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot
be my disciple.
27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my
disciple.
KJV
Again, where in this quote is the reference to abstinence, these two verses
specifically mention parents and spouses
Post by Glenn (Christian Mystic)celibacy is not and has never been a command by God.
Yes, it has.
Luke 20:34-36
34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry,
and
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and
are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
KJV
Matt 19:10-13
10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife,
it is not good to marry.
11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to
whom it is given.
12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's
and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be
eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's
sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.
KJV
Note: FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN'S SAKE
Rev 14:4-5
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins.
These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were
redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before
the throne of God
KJV
Note: REDEEMED
1 Cor 7:32-34
32 But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth
for
33 But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how
he may please his wife.
34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried
woman
careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and
in
spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how
she
may please her husband.
KJV
Matt 19:27-29
27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all,
and
followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have
followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the
throne
of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve
tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or
father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake,
shall
receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
KJV
Luke 14:33
33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he
hath,
he cannot be my disciple.
KJV
Luke 14:26-27
26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife,
and
children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot
be my disciple.
27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my
disciple.
KJV
But all of you who want to have sex, rather than eternal life in heaven,
go
ahead, we certainly don't want selfish, self-serving LUSTFUL, sinful
people
in our heaven any way.
--
Dore
http://dorewilliamson.com
Post by Glenn (Christian Mystic)AMEN !!
On Tue, 3 Jun 2003 17:14:46 +0930, "Aaron"
It does not mean that people with the spiritual gift of celibacy
who are married should now seek a divorce on these grounds.
Yes, it does, if you want to be saved. Celibacy is NOT a spiritual
gift,
Post by Glenn (Christian Mystic)but a command of self-discipline to ALL who desire to be redeemed
into
Post by Glenn (Christian Mystic)heaven.
1Timothy 4:1-3
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some
shall
Post by Glenn (Christian Mystic)depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines
of
Post by Glenn (Christian Mystic)devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot
iron;
Post by Glenn (Christian Mystic)Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God
hath
Post by Glenn (Christian Mystic)created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know
the
Post by Glenn (Christian Mystic)truth.
celibacy is not and has never been a command by God.